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ICQ History Log For: 2560153 Tug Started on Sun Feb 03 20:22:59 2002 |
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| Tug
2/2/2002 9:55 PM |
Hello. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:56 PM |
http://www.unrealcity.com/ |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:56 PM |
? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:56 PM |
That's horrid |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:56 PM |
hehe. My partner did it. He doesn't know any ASP or XML or anything, just graphics. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:57 PM |
Well, the graphics are terrible...and this "We use Microsoft FrontPage Server extensions, it is now easier than ever to edit your own web page! Ultra-Tight Security Features!" is a blatant lie. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:58 PM |
this server doesn't even appear to be properly firewalled. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:58 PM |
I use VS.NET personally. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:58 PM |
How would you know. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:58 PM |
? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:58 PM |
look at the ports open... pcanywhere... etc. Its wide open for the most part. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:59 PM |
I've opened those ports. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:59 PM |
That's very foolish on a webserver. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 9:59 PM |
Wait, your a 23 year old? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 9:59 PM |
Windows can never
claim to be "ultra-tight security" |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:00 PM |
Openbsd hasn't had a remote security hole in the default install in 4 years... I bet win/iis had one last week. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:00 PM |
I mean... running it with IIS..I'm surprised this site is still up. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:00 PM |
I added you to my list because I found you on AFF.com, not to evaluate what you think about TCP/IP and Microsoft OS's. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:00 PM |
Yes, I am 23. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:00 PM |
It's been up for 4 years. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:01 PM |
I try to take security and operating systems seriously... |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:01 PM |
Yeah, me too...I am an Enterprise Architect. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:02 PM |
but you let your website be served from iis/win ? eek. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:02 PM |
That is just one server. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:02 PM |
ok, give me another |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:02 PM |
www.wmn.net |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:03 PM |
k |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:03 PM |
still running win and iis |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:03 PM |
better looking site at least. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
why the hell do you open up pcanywhere on these machines? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
that is so needless. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
Well, I did Ford.com; MCI.com,InternetMCI.com, USAA.com, etc. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
You 'did' them? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
I'm sorry, but using windows for these solutions is a terrible idea. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
I am an Enterprise Architect. Look at unrealcity.com/lmcgraw/ ; that's me. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:04 PM |
I think that is what I am hired to evaluate. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:05 PM |
You're an enterprise architect that doesn't seem to care about security. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:08 PM |
Heh. My freind just referred to unrealcity.com as "open as a french whore" |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:08 PM |
Whatever. What's your domain name? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:08 PM |
girlvinyl.com, bsdiva.com |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:13 PM |
so... you don't use any *nix at all? |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:13 PM |
I use .NET, ASP, DHTML, Javascript, VB.NET,VB6, C++, C#, SQL 2000, stuff like that. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:14 PM |
Enterprise solutions. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:15 PM |
Umm, asp is shit. javascript IS dhtml.... how do you figure these are 'enterprise solutions' ? I mean... you use no unix at all? That's incredible. I mean... even ibm has taken up linux as its new best friend. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:16 PM |
I use unix for some things, when it's needed. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:16 PM |
If you care about security, its basically always needed. Not to mention cost and reliability. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:17 PM |
What exactly do you do for a living? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:18 PM |
IT Director. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:18 PM |
For who? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:19 PM |
Art publishing company. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:20 PM |
Well, that's great, but I like both unix and MS. Unfortunately, unless you want to write EJB or low level C, unix isn't very developer freely. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:20 PM |
I am glad to see Websphere addressing Web Services finally tho. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:21 PM |
I completely disagree. *nix comes natively with all the compilers for just about every language that exists today... And if they aren't there, you can get them. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:24 PM |
Really, well, I thought that everyone realized 12 years ago that Perl and C on Unix spawned a separate process per request, just like CGI, has long since been gone. As far as *nix, I haven't looked into it's implementation details, so I have little to offer. Fortunately, EJB using a runtime environment like MS's IIS and ISAPI applications, not requiring a separate process per request. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:26 PM |
I think cgi is dead too,. But asp soon will be as well. php is opensource, mysql is its best friend.... they will prevail. companies always want free over expensive |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:27 PM |
asp is already dead in my opinion, but so is jsp. It's all (all new MS development) going to ASP.NET and C#, at least for the next few years. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:29 PM |
PHP isn't anything that any substantial corporate is going to base it's future on because it could disappear at any time. While MS is constantly changing, they are going to be around for a long time, so large corporations will use that because they know there is always someone responsible. Who makes PHP anyway? |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:30 PM |
I've got some friends that write it, but I never have. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:32 PM |
php is cross platform and runs on windows or unix, easy for developers already familiar with other languages.. and oh yeah.. its free. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:33 PM |
Plus, far more sites are run on apache than that horrible iis. Its very easy to add php/mysql support to apache. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:33 PM |
Free isn't always good. When you pay for something and it doesn't work, then someone is liable for it...you can call and bitch the company who sold it to you out, even threaten with lawsuits. When things are free, then don't have to support it. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:34 PM |
Corporations want accountibility. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:35 PM |
The fact that things run in separate process can be seen as a positive. the fact that things in IIS share memory address space and process ID's means that if one process craps out.. the whole freaking box craps out, hence unix is stable and windows is more of a toy. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:35 PM |
Frankly, I think mysql is for people who need databases, but know little to nothing about RDBMS. I prefer Oracle, but then MS SQL Server. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:37 PM |
IIS allows you to configure different sites to run in their own memory space, so only once site goes down if an error occurs in a memory space. Further, you can configure your components to run in-proc or out of proc, hence allows for sites to stay up even if a separate component process fails. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:37 PM |
I am not trying to bash or beat you here, BTW, just thought you might be interested. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:37 PM |
Free doesn't always (and often doesn't) mean that you don't pay for it. what free means for software is FREEDOM to modify and customize, hence the support comes from programers, not kids with worthless microsoft certifications that you pay $200 an hour to search microsoft.com for you |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:38 PM |
mabye you don't NEED support from software, thats actually well done and documented.. and opensource, unlike closed proprietary "standards" |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:38 PM |
ms sql server is for people who need databases but can't think beyond clicking on little checkboxes in between having to reboot |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:39 PM |
Well, maybe you should have said OPEN versus CLOSED rather than FREE versus NOT FREE. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:39 PM |
I have 15+ years of RDBMS, starting with DB4 for DOS and I can assure you that SQL Server is far more than that. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:39 PM |
It's neat to meet someone so young that knows some of this stuff tho. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:40 PM |
thats true, and you can also do that with apache, and btw.. hows that whole code red thing treating you? nice to have your servers go down from 10 year olds and a single line of code? |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:40 PM |
The largest online DB (60 TB) in the world is UPS, right by Perimeter mall, and it runs MS SQL 2000. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:41 PM |
Code Red didn't get me, but go alot of people. That was a naughty virus tho. There's a UNIX version out now too. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:41 PM |
ms sql is a powerful database with many features, but the fact remains. you can have a powerful engine and if you put it in a car with no wheels, doesn't help much |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:42 PM |
I friend of mine at EFS National Bank called me and warned me about Code Red. He saw it try to come into his Stratus(sp?) frame. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:42 PM |
Well, works fine for the largest online DB in the world. Nevertheless, for larger systems, I prefer Oracle on Sun. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:43 PM |
hold on... working on something. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:43 PM |
k |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:49 PM |
What was your AFF handle anyway? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:49 PM |
I don't know what aff is |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:49 PM |
How did you get my ICQ then? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:50 PM |
you messaged me |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:50 PM |
hmm, o well, I forget. I probably added you months ago. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:50 PM |
no, I just got the request today. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:51 PM |
hmm, weird. Who knows, I mean, I am running Windows 2000 Advanced Server at home, so it's probably all fucked up. :- ) |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:52 PM |
Its fucked up as soon as you install it. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:54 PM |
Hah, you use BSD? |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:54 PM |
yes. I like BSD |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:55 PM |
Yeah, BSD is ok. Doesn't pay that well to work on it tho. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:55 PM |
Not unless you are a EJB Architect anyway. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 10:57 PM |
The point of java, is that it runs well on all platforms... so, saying that is really completely inaccurate. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 10:59 PM |
Java runs on the JVM, which interpret bytecode, none of which is compiled, so it's slow. Java and EJB is terribly slow in comparison to any compiled language. All I said is working on Unix doesn't pay well, so what I said has nothing to do with Java. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:00 PM |
Java is obsoleted by MS .NET; however, I do see Java is stealing alot of .NET's Just In Time compiling schema. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:00 PM |
Strange, if MS is so screwed up, why is Java stealing is core compiling services. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:00 PM |
? |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:02 PM |
O well, you won't here MS piss and whine about it like everyone else does about their stuff. Picking on MS is like picking on the President; it's easy to pick on number one, they're the easiest target. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:03 PM |
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:04 PM |
the longest uptimes on the web ALL bsd |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:05 PM |
Yeah, but what good is being up if all you are is up...I mean, great, your up, but you are BSD and what are you doing...maybe DNS, maybe even some HTTP and FTP, but what else? It's easy to be up when you don't do anything. The Windows Servers are application servers...most unix boxes are little more than packet throwers. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:05 PM |
Java can't steal ANYthing from .net. Java was written first... that's ridiculous. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:05 PM |
Java was created first, but Java didn't develop Just In Time compiling, .NET did. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:06 PM |
Java is stealing .NET's core compiler for it's own. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:07 PM |
U crack me up. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:07 PM |
No, .net stole JIT FROM java.... its the second time they've done it.... they got sued on the first... J++.... ms lost. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:08 PM |
JIT isn't java. I told you JIT is MS. Java had an interpreter of bytecode. MS had JIT for Just In Time activation for COM+ services, then now have JIT for Just In Time compiler for .NET. Interpreter is a line by line interpretation. JIT compiler is full parsing and execution plan optimization. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:09 PM |
BIG difference. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:09 PM |
In any case, it will probably take Java another year to reverse engineer JIT compiler, so by then MS will have something better they have to try to steal. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:10 PM |
Java is obsolete for everything but client side form validation in my opinion. It's ok for EJB but painful slow to write, in execution, and expensive to develop and debug. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:11 PM |
JDBC, hehe, boy, that was a joke...I mean, still is for Java folks. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:11 PM |
Class factory, ha, that's another one. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:14 PM |
I like your graphics on your site, BTW. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:14 PM |
What's the video link do? I don't have a password. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:15 PM |
Sigh. I really have no interest in Java. I'm not a developer, and most likely never will be. But, JDBC beats the hell out of ODBC, and you must realize that bsd is not just pointless except for ejb and java applications. Its far more complex than that. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:15 PM |
I know you don't have a password. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:16 PM |
ODBC, wow, I thought everyone stopped using that 5 years ago. Yeah, ODBC sucked. I always used native API calls on the DB I wanted to access. ODBC not good for Enterprise solutions |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:17 PM |
well. javascript and iis aren't good for enterprise solutions either. Unless they're not connected to the internet... maybe then. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:18 PM |
Well, that's what was in use at Ford.com, the second largest corporation in the world and it was taking over 30000 hits per minute. Worked fine. When you use MS OS's however, you have to have a cluster farm. Well, I guess when you take that many hits on any OS, you better have a farm. #FFFFFF |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:21 PM |
I have to go... phone call. #99CCFF |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:21 PM |
Regarding being a developer, I love developing, but unfortunately my architect responsibilities keep me away from it most of the time...I mean architect and Chief Operating Officer responsibilities. BTW, the security on that server has never been compromised. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:21 PM |
Take care and I enjoyed the chat. |
| Sherrod
2/2/2002 11:21 PM |
well, you never know when it will be... the odds are not in your favor. |
| Tug
2/2/2002 11:25 PM |
Well, with me managing it, they probably are in my favor. I have been working with Windows since before it came out. I started with DOS 3.0, so I know how to write assembly to sniff ports. I also have some friends at WorldCOM that will shut down any server I name, so if it ever does get hacked, I'll point my DS3 and they point a few OC192s at it and we'll watch their entire cluster drop off the face of the earth. :-) |